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Permalink Reply by Lavoisier Cornerstone on June 8, 2008 at 2:29am

Also D,

Even though I really wanna hear why you believe discussions like this are a waste of time, I'd like to take a sec and share why I disagree with you and why I believe they aren't (for ME anyway).

Personally, the questions I post here and participate in and even start, are things that may be on my heart that I wanna share, rant or vent about OR it could be something that I have my own perspective on that I'd like to hear what other brothers in the Lord have to say about it. I think it's really an awesome thing to be able to connect with Christians and discuss things like this...IT'S LIKE VIRTUAL FELLOWSHIP!

Many advisers make victory sure.
Proverbs 11:14

For waging war you need guidance and for victory many advisers.
Proverbs 24:6

For some, discussions like this may serve as a conduit by which to get answers to questions and perspectives on topics that they might not be able to get from anyone in person. If you think brothers need to love more? START A CONVERSATION AND TALK ABOUT IT. You bursting through the door talking about who's not saved and 90% of Christian artists are fake...D let's keep that real, you don't even KNOW 90% of Christian artists. Not feelin' that cuz. (And I would've addressed you via a private message but you made a public statement). So nah Les..I'm not giving an amen to that.

And D, your comments are not like "some people"...you jumped on this joint making blanket statements, accusing brothers and using the preposition "you". Are you referring to anyone on this post in particular...I don't get it. I happen to be one of those gospel rappers that you know...and you KNOW my style. Holla at me man, what up? Like 13-14 people have posted on this topic...INCLUDING THE MODERATOR...are we ALL wasting our time D?

Quote:
"How about we actually be christians 1st. Because I BET YOU IF WE GET THAT part right, we wont be having these time waisting discussions."
-With a comment like that, it would almost stand to reason that you're saying that people who are "Christians 1st" wouldn't be wasting their time on such 'trivial' or maybe 'unspiritual' matters and that discussions like this one are for people that are NOT "Christians 1st."

Lavoisier
Rap Terrorist
Boondock Saint Gang
AOmega Global Military a.k.a That Jesus Set
"It's That Get Saved MuZiK!"

Permalink Reply by Urs E. on June 10, 2008 at 1:27am

My brothers and sisters, I think both points in the topic raised is applicable.

In studying the scriptures you find verses like Prov. 18:16, "A man gift makes room for him and brings him before great men." Or the text in Matt. 25:15-30, which highlights the expectation of the master toward the servants that were entrusted with the 1, 2, and 5 talents.What about Mark 11:12-14, the encounter Jesus had with the fig tree that appeared to have fruit but was barren. Remember he cursed it therefore, it withered and died. And please consider 1 Corinthians 12:4-9, (my personal call/assignment) which explain the function(s) of the Body of Christ (if you have a Life Application Bible be sure to study the notes).

We are all a part of a bigger picture. Some represent an eye, another an arm, and yet another a big toe.

Say I am a big toe, I am anointed to fufill a specific purpose within the Body and nothing more, certainly nothing less (try walking with a disjointed or without a big toe, it won't work).

When all parts of the Body are fulfilled or take proper shape and place then it can begin to move, function, and operate in its intended use, saving souls/impacting lives.

Much like the human body. If any part is disfunctional, not operating in its appointed gift, that body is considered deformed or disabled.

Their are many parts that make up this Urban Gospel/Holy Hip Hop Body. Some are called to minister to the lost in the streets (the ones who wouldn't be caught dead at a funeral in a church), some are called to sustain the saints, the ones who are have grown weary or consumed with religion, and some, like myself are called to support, encourage, exhort, and advocate for the called!

So in the final analysis, we have all been called, we all have gifts to be used for the Masters use, but make no mistake about it..He has not called us to boundaries, limits, or to be in a box, but to walk in and live in power, dominion, and authority.

I can not nor will I attempt to judge how you use your gifts and talents (that the Father's job). Just do it, be it!

The utilization of our gifts should prosperous us, whatever prosperous means to you; wealth, fame, fulfillment, joy, peace, contentment, good health, great relationships, successful ministry/business. Do it all to the Glory of God as He has ordained for you from the foundations of the earth.

Now let's go out and produce some results (fruit) for Him using what He gave (talents), being careful not return unto Him void!

Madd Blessings,

Urs E./Ursula D.

Permalink Reply by Donna Verne on June 19, 2008 at 8:32pm

Urs E said: Their are many parts that make up this Urban Gospel/Holy Hip Hop Body. Some are called to minister to the lost in the streets (the ones who wouldn't be caught dead at a funeral in a church), some are called to sustain the saints, the ones who are have grown weary or consumed with religion, and some, like myself are called to support, encourage, exhort, and advocate for the called!


That's good.

Permalink Reply by Daniel Johnson on June 11, 2008 at 1:45am

What up Claud, you are right, I do know you and you know me also. Even from the begining. You know where I stand in CHRIST....! In the time when there was need, you know where my love for you was and is...! I have been ministering for 8 or 9 years now and I have been professing CHRIST for even longer. GOD isn't stupid, your not either, nor are any of HIS Children and I'm not stupid because HE wouldn't call me into a matter without giving me discernment and the sight and voice to speak, see, and live as HE would have me too. Now I know what I'm talkin about pretaining to this because I have been in the fight of it. I never chased after fame or any form of gain. All I desired was to speak whatever the LORD told me in private, out to the public; thus GOD being glorified..... And GOD has maintained my testimony inspite of my sins, weakness, unfaithulness, and every other carnal thing about me. I will continuse to call it however GOD alows me to see it.

I came from the streets also, and I have the criminal record and a probation sentence which is still pending to prove it, so please spare me the street talk. We are new creations in CHRIST. And I have the Word to back up everything that I'm saying, but I believe that I am being lead by the LORD right now as I type. (So I guess this is like virtual rehma). You are such a gifted and talented Brother, and your drive and intellect is astonishing to the point that I can only give GOD glory whenever I hear you speak by HIS leading. The floor was opened to the public, and I coount as part of the public, and so I speak as I spoke...! We may disagree, but all I ask of you is to remember the love that I displayed to you... ! In the past and now. And I still do love you... JESUS CHRIST is LORD over everything...!

D. Johnson

Permalink Reply by SEV STATIK on June 21, 2008 at 6:08pm

I know there's a balance for christians who are musically talented to create music to gain income and still be on point w/ their ministry. there's a few rock/alternative christian groups on the mainstream level that are combining the 2 aspects of being called to serve. One debate that is always raised for some of these groups is that they might not be "christian enough" for the hardcore ministry centered christian audience. God uses so many people and their talents for so many different reasons that we cannot fathom how or why these types of ministries are needed.

But I do not believe we should pimp the gospel. Some cats make "christian music" because they know it has a built-in audience. That happens more on a corporate level because I know first hand there are christian based labels that are started by major secular label executives to tap into the Christian market. Where there's money to be made you'll find every shapeshifter in the book there as well.

Some christians just know how to make good music reaching the average person to introduce them to Christ. They might not understand how to be effective in using scripture or the name of Jesus to promote being born again. Regardless, it's the Holy Spirit that convicts the hearts of men.. not man's words. God will call who He will call. I don't know, did i get off topic here? :/

So, get money. Get in the Word. Never confuse the two for why you do what you do and give it all back to the Lord to multipIy it. I appreciate the musicians and writers displaying a great balance... especially gospel hip hop artists - in all genres because we know how hard it is to "cross-over" and do this for a living. I keep a day job, homie. Dept of Defense all day.

Permalink Reply by Brad on June 22, 2008 at 7:07pm

Sev, you made some great points here.

The Gospel music industry does sound shady. I find it funny that every single major secular label has their "Inspirational" sub-label. So they can reach out to the rockers, rappers, oldies, kids, up-tempo jazzers AND Christians at the same time. They probably view us as if we're just another marketable genre to make some easy moolah.

I also believe that as Christians, it's our job to learn how to clearly communicate the Gospel, We need to roll the same way Jesus did, to seek and save that which was lost. Thus, it's extremely imperative that we study Scripture and understand the importance of proclaiming the Name above all names. (Psalms 148:13; Philippians 2:9).
Plus, you're totally right, the Holy Spirit is what convicts. But the Holy Spirit uses our words and actions to lead to Christ's restoration. I believe that's why the Word says, "He who wins souls is wise" (Proverbs 11:30)
Aside: One of the dopest, deepest lines I ever heard was from shai linne's guest rhyme in Timothy Brindle's "Behind Bars" :
You say you witness with your lips/ we witness with our life for Christ/
It’s not either-or it’s both and to be precise
Lips with out life makes you a hypocrite/
Life without lips a moralist—either way the Lord is dissed!/

In addition, I also believe that when we seek the Kingdom first, all things are added onto us (can't remember the verse, think it's in Matthew 6). Obviously that doesn't mean we'll ALL be billionaires, as sometimes the process and sacrifice of carrying our crosses means that we do make financial sacrifices. But He promises to provide for every need and yo, the reward for placing His mission first will come.

Thanks for giving us your insight, as you've gone much farther in hip hop--and probably your walk with God--than most of us vitriol-spewing message board nerds. Again, much respect to you. And I told you this in a comment, but to give you another plug for the illspot.net community at large...Bakesale was tight. Go cop this soon.


Stay blessed,
-b

Permalink Reply by Johnny Navarro.....LogosRhema on June 23, 2008 at 1:14pm

This is real...lol. I think there is a difference between a gospel rapper and a christian rapper. A christian rapper, is just a rapper who is saved but may not necessaril put the message of JEsus in his music. A gospel rapper on the other hand focused his music on and around the gospel. Personally i feel i would be wasting my time if i wasnt filling my music woth the word of God in every bar, but i dont judge those who dont feel the same way. God has dramtically transformed my life, and i have thrown everything else i have away for him. Paul said if I boast in anything, let it be in the crucifiction of Jesus Christ. When Jesus healed the blind man and told him not to tell anyone the first thing that he did was run and tell everyone about Jesus. HE could have went and got a job and lived his life for Jesus without telling anyone about it, but he went and spread the news......Its the same principle. Jesus healed me of my of my sin and took the curse from me, so im just running around telling everyone. Furthermore, there is nothing good in me, so if im not talking about the only good thing in me then what else do i have to talk about? Everything in my life highlights the grace and the entire message of Jesus Christ, including my music. IM not called to be a rapper forever, but God has revealed and confirmed to me that i will be preaching the word. Maybe thats why i feel like i do, because im called to preach. I just dont feel i have anything worthwhile to talk about besides the goodness of God. Jesus is amazing!!!!!!!

Permalink Reply by Good Friday on June 23, 2008 at 2:37pm

If God gave you a gift, then use it for his glory. That is why he gave you the gift in the first place. I would never compromise my music, because the talent or the drive could fade away because the porpuse would not be there anymore. I'm independent and someone wanted to give me a record deal but only if I stopped sayin' Jesus then I wouldn't do it. I would have to change and if I change then my music won't be good. I have to spit the way I wanna spit and that is for God. If God chose me to do this than he will find a good Label to sign me. God would never want me to sign to a label that wants me to compromise my ministry to him. When it comes to that, us as Rap Artists got to check our selves not only then but when we write or record a song and even when we step onstage. I believe if an artist uses their gifts just for a livin' and not to evangelize then they need to stop callin' themselves a Christian!

Permalink Reply by Lavoisier Cornerstone on June 23, 2008 at 5:15pm

What's poppin' Good Friday, grace and peace. I disagree man. How come that is ONLY the case with music? The book of James says that: EVERY good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. (James 1:17)

If ALL gifts are from God, how come the emphasis for evangelism is put on music? Why doesn't the architect have to build only churches. Can the person who's gifted with a camera NOT work for NBC ...can he/she ONLY work in Christian media? (and if NBC, why not MTV? B/c their BOTH wicked?) And if THAT be the case, how do you explain the fact that God used Daniel AND Joseph's gifts to prosper EVIL and IDOLATROUS kingdoms? (For His own greater purposes of course, but God did it nonetheless). The Bible says that God blessed pharaoh for Joseph's sake and we KNOW that Pharaoh was an unbeliever (or the equivalent of the word).

Lavoisier
Rap Terrorist
Boondock Saint Gang
AOmega Global Military aka That Jesus Set
"Its That Get Saved MuZiK!"

Permalink Reply by Phyllis on June 24, 2008 at 2:03am

Hi,
i'm just jumpin' in-in this discussion, if you don't mind!
First off, God said,"Every good and every perfect gift is from above...etc" (James 1:17). That is certainly excluding anything "evil or idolatrous kingdoms..." Although He can use evil and turn it out for the good. Like in the case w / Joseph ("...to save many people alive..." is part of what the Scriptures say in Gen. 50:20) pharaoh saw God in Joseph in even the name he gave Joseph in Gen. 41:45 that probably means in egyptian-NKJV says, Zaphnath-Paaneah:"God Speaks and He Lives." Joseph spoke to pharaoh for God to interpret his dreams and to prophesy as well. In addition, the case w / Daniel also, God used him to cause others, even the King (because him and those w / Daniel would not bow to no other name or god) to worship the True and living God who delivers lives (Dan. 3:28-29).
Anytime the Lord does or allows anything good or evil, it is ultimately all for His Glory-Fame or Renown and for His good and perfect purposes.
Correction bro., in the most humble-est of wayz, #1 "all gifts" are not from God. God does not prosper evil and idolatrous kingdoms. They just run their course, God's Goodness (Let's all define that Goodness through the testing of His Word to find out what is Good in the first place) rains on the just and the unjust. That is part of the Lord's distinct attributes (characteristics). His heart for them is that they would repent and turn from their evil ways and turn to Him fully with all their heart to worship and serve their True and Living God who made them. The Goodness of God leads us to repentance! the word repent means "to change." The Lord is Good and His mercy endures forever! His name is JESUS!!!
How can they believe and know Him, unless someone tells them about Him! Please read Rom.10:14-17
There's a time to live the Gospel and there's a time to speak the Gospel!
There is no way around it as a Christian who believes the Gospel! This can be and must be as Jesus leads you in whatever your vocation (or calling, all for Him)! Whatever you find your hands to do, do it all for God's Glory as long as you are not rejecting Him and His Gospel in doing so! Remember He will provide and for His own especially Mat.6:33!
In this case Lavoisier, with this discussion, cuz the emphasis is on music, i am referring to "Christian" Rappers / Singers, like it says above. Our lives should be a "ministry to Christ" in whatever we do, evangelism should follow after that!
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks!
In His Love, Life and Peace,
ur sis. in Christ,
Phyllis

Permalink Reply by iLL on June 27, 2008 at 3:59am

As long as there is the genre "Christian Rap/Gospel rap/ Holy Hip Hop/Christian Hip Hop" we will be carrying on this old HHZ conversation.

My opinion is that the conversation is driven by fear and pride! We fear that if anyone is a Christian and gets any shine from just being good at what they do, that translates into betraying their commitment to Christ. We fear that they will get big and leave 'the way' behind. (before any ever called us christians, we were called followers of the way) If they stray, that is not ideal, but Christ has grace for that. It is a danger that we have in any form of livin...temptation will come. We don't HAVE to succomb.

it aint even about music.

It's about PRIDE and FEAR. Both of these drive us to disassociate with monetary success outside of preaching.

The pride comes in when 'Jonny Rap Rapp' drops a mixtape that gets 100K downloads online. Then we say its cool cause he achieved that through spittin "gospel rap". But when Jonny Rap Rapp drops a verse on a so-called secular video and gets 250K views on youtube, he's got to be stopped. Jonny rap-rapp done left the church. Thats when the hate begins. We are so hurt by the fact that christian rap makes pennies compared to secular rap labels that we secretly envy them. We want the success but only in secret, cause we don't want to be christian rap outcasts. Christian rap artists are blacklisted by HHH Djs because they are not evangelizing through records and we don't want to be one of them.[blacklisted rapper]

Success and integrity don't usually ride in the same car. You have to convince them that they can ride together. Once you get them in the car, people wont believe that they are in the car 'together'. Now you gotta convince people that they are in the same car. Don't be the person saying that they can't ride together. Be the one that congratulates the one who has both success and integrity.

In other words, don't be a hater. We are in this together. Different styles, races, backgrounds, cities, states, towns, communication levels, but all still members of His body.

Let me do what only a hand can do. Yeah, I know you watchin, cause you an eye. Don't hate me cause I can't see and I wont hate you cause you can't do nothin about what you see. We might as well work together to fulfill our mission.

iLL

Permalink Reply by Mrsowenz on June 30, 2008 at 10:48am

Preach Preacha! LOL I love it!

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